| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 17:51, 2nd July 2024 |     |
I thought that Butlins was a favoured holiday destination for the less well off.
As a resident of Minehead, I would not consider the area to be pampered or well off.
Average living standards could be improved by a decent all year round train service as this would facilitate employment without driving.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Noggin at 13:35, 2nd July 2024 | |
I expect a few years of reviews, studies, and consultations, followed by a change of government with the new government re-doing the reviews, studies and consultations because the last lot did not do them properly.
Simply making use of an existing railway line is arguably too simple.
Simply making use of an existing railway line is arguably too simple.
I suspect the problem is more that the Minehead is too far south to count, especially if Labour get in - wealthy and pampered enough already aren't we?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 17:22, 1st July 2024 | |
Owned by the Heritage railway, surely?
Then it for them to make a decision first. They might not be able to staff it all day, every day for example.
Then it for them to make a decision first. They might not be able to staff it all day, every day for example.
Think it was owned by Somerset County Council - so now owned by the Unitary Authority?
Lots of very serious issues and I will get shot down from all sides by daring to suggest that something could be done; I don't even live on the line.
But something could be done
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by ChrisB at 17:15, 1st July 2024 | |
Owned by the Heritage railway, surely?
Then it for them to make a decision first. They might not be able to staff it all day, every day for example.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 16:48, 1st July 2024 | |
I expect a few years of reviews, studies, and consultations, followed by a change of government with the new government re-doing the reviews, studies and consultations because the last lot did not do them properly.
Simply making use of an existing railway line is arguably too simple.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 12:52, 1st July 2024 | |
From Somerset Catch the Bus Camapign
09.26 and the first standing loaded 28 on its way to Taunton. I wonder which will come first. Bos admitting they have continually messed up the 28 but are going to do something about or people getting fed up and avoiding using the buses completely. My money is on the latter.
Posting here just as a reminder that buses struggle to cope with the traffic on the Minehead to Taunton route. Difficult to see what alternative there is?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 22:35, 14th June 2024 | |
One of these years ...
From today, here are the trains that start at Taunton and head east via Cogload - and candidates to start back from somewhere on the line to Minehead?
It's been a long day ... and so I amused myself going through the look above. With a single extra train, departures from Taunton at 08:10, 10:10, 12:00, 14:00, 17:00, 20:20 and 22:20 and from Minehead at 07:10, 09:10, 12:10, 14:10, 16:10, 19:10 and 21:20 - five of them through trains from / to beyond Taunton ... running time of just over an hour, trains passing in most cases at Bishop's Lydeard. Where trains leave both ends at the same time, crossing at Williton?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Witham Bobby at 14:25, 14th June 2024 | |
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1730959503584733/posts/26674634072123931/
Can't keep a project like a reconnection of Minehead to the National Network down. That link shows a picture of the disused bay platform at Taunton from where Minehead (and Barnstaple) trains left and has triggered a discussion of many of the issues.
One of these years ...[snip]
Can't keep a project like a reconnection of Minehead to the National Network down. That link shows a picture of the disused bay platform at Taunton from where Minehead (and Barnstaple) trains left and has triggered a discussion of many of the issues.
One of these years ...[snip]
The platform shown on that Facebook page is the old Platform 8 at Taunton, the arrival bay for terminating trains from Barnstaple and from Minehead. It's on the up side of the station
Originating trains heading for Barnstaple and Minehead went from the old Platforms 3 and 4, on the down side.
So there was inevitably an amount of shunting in order for arriving trains to become departing return workings. Made for a very interesting place for trainspotters with an interest in operations.
Frequently, trains from Minehead would, in practice, arrive at Platform 5 (The Up Relief platform) and become a working to Yeovil. This would cut-down on the shunting moves very considerably
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 12:55, 14th June 2024 | |
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1730959503584733/posts/26674634072123931/
Can't keep a project like a reconnection of Minehead to the National Network down. That link shows a picture of the disused bay platform at Taunton from where Minehead (and Barnstaple) trains left and has triggered a discussion of many of the issues.
One of these years ...
From today, here are the trains that start at Taunton and head east via Cogload - and candidates to start back from somewhere on the line to Minehead?
Starts here 5 2M02 GW Bristol Temple Meads 0510
Starts here 4 2K10 GW Severn Beach 0637
Starts here - 1A09 GW London Paddington 0654
Starts here 3 1A12 GW London Paddington 0724
Starts here 3 2U08 GW Cardiff Central 0819
Starts here 3 2U18 GW Cardiff Central 1311
Starts here 6 2U22 GW Cardiff Central 1515
Starts here 2 2U26 GW Cardiff Central 1711
Starts here 3 2U28 GW Cardiff Central 1810
Starts here 2 2U30 GW Cardiff Central 1914
Starts here 3 2M76 GW Bristol Temple Meads 2244
and while I am at it, here are trains arriving via Cogload and terminating
0808 Bristol Temple Meads 3 2C63 GW Terminates here
1154 Cardiff Central 3 2C71 GW Terminates here 5
1353 Cardiff Central 3 2C75 GW Terminates here 5
1655 Cardiff Central 2 2C81 GW Terminates here 5
1758 Cardiff Central 3 2C83 GW Terminates here 5
1857 Cardiff Central 2 2C85 GW Terminates here 5
1911 London Paddington 3 1C22 GW Terminates here 9
2015 London Paddington 3 1C25 GW Terminates here 9
2207 Cardiff Central 3 2C91 GW Terminates here 5
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 05:41, 21st May 2024 | |
In the much longer term a return of rail freight to serve the industrial estate and supermarkets is possible,
Extremely unlikely. How many other supermarkets are served by rail? Goods from ports to DC’s, yes. To the actual store? No.
We headed off on a very interesting tangent after this post on increasing passenger traffic, far, far from Minehead so I have split the above post and those that followed it into a new thread at http://www.passenger.chat/28735
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 07:06, 20th May 2024 | |
Lots of ifs, buts, maybes and "remaining convinced" without data would be unlikely to convince the DfT I reckon?
Indeed it can be hard to convince the DfT and some other key players. I recall "Fill the existing trains and we'll then provide some more" for Melksham - which was pretty darned awkward with 2 trains a day from Swindon, at 06:20 and 18:44 from Swindon and at 07:20 and 19:47 from Melksham.
"Show us that you (community) can reach people and get them to use the trains" was also a tall ask on that service, and with services at 09:20 and 15:20 to Swindon and back (also) at 15:20 and 21:20 on Saturdays, and 2 northbound trains on Sunday evening with nothing in service in the other direction ("Two services on Sunday from Westbury to Swindon" said the SLC ... so nothing in passenger service provided in the other direction)
But it can be done - in our case with incremental experiments that proved the case
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 06:46, 20th May 2024 | |
IF an effective year round train service served Minehead, then I would expect a substantial increase in day trippers visiting Minehead, either as day guests to Butlins or to enjoy a day beside the sea.
In the longer term regular commuting is likely to or from Minehead.
In the much longer term a return of rail freight to serve the industrial estate and supermarkets is possible. The long talked about Severn barrage to generate renewable electricity is again being discussed due to the great increase in natural gas prices.
Rail delivery of the plant and materials seems far preferable to road traffic.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TaplowGreen at 08:01, 19th May 2024 | |
I’m not sure a TransWilts rail replacement bus comparison is a good one as that takes a great deal longer than the train it replaces.
Neither am I - far too many things differ and reflect in both an upwards and a downwards direction. Itis the closest I have to offer with knowledge from my own experience. I am relieved that my calculations in three different ways have come out with broadly similar passenger guesstimates and that in none of those have I forced the figures upwards in any way; for sure as an advocate of rail / public transport it's very easy to wear rose tinted spectacles.
With all the ducks lined up, I remain convinced that a national rail service running through to Minehead would offer a similar success story to Okehampton, Ebbw Vale, Melksham, Tweedbank and others - not only in the direct "isn't this rail service doing well" arena, but also in the "look at the good this is doing for the area" mode. And done with care - but this is the tricky bit - it can be done to continue to provide a wonderful line for tourism, heritage and volunteer operation reducing the financial yokes around the neck of such operations of sole maintenance responsibility for a long permanent way in a time of climate change and ageing volunteers. Compromises needed on all sides - but I'm not sure if it's broken enough yet for those compromises to be reached.
There certainly seems to be a compelling argument for additional public transport on Butlins changeover days, probably initially at least via extra buses.
"Stories tell us both of buses that are overcrowded on turnover day, and from First that the buses [at other times?] are so quiet that they are not commercial viable". - probably won't help the argument that a rail service is justified if it would only really be fully utilised once or twice a week.
I would say the best way to develop your argument would be to get an idea of how many people commute from Minehead and other intermediate stations to Taunton, how they do so, and how many would be likely to switch to using the train were it to be available.
Apologies if that's been covered earlier in the thread, I can see it's been going for a good few years!
Lots of ifs, buts, maybes and "remaining convinced" without data would be unlikely to convince the DfT I reckon?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 03:58, 19th May 2024 | |
I’m not sure a TransWilts rail replacement bus comparison is a good one as that takes a great deal longer than the train it replaces.
Neither am I - far too many things differ and reflect in both an upwards and a downwards direction. Itis the closest I have to offer with knowledge from my own experience. I am relieved that my calculations in three different ways have come out with broadly similar passenger guesstimates and that in none of those have I forced the figures upwards in any way; for sure as an advocate of rail / public transport it's very easy to wear rose tinted spectacles.
With all the ducks lined up, I remain convinced that a national rail service running through to Minehead would offer a similar success story to Okehampton, Ebbw Vale, Melksham, Tweedbank and others - not only in the direct "isn't this rail service doing well" arena, but also in the "look at the good this is doing for the area" mode. And done with care - but this is the tricky bit - it can be done to continue to provide a wonderful line for tourism, heritage and volunteer operation reducing the financial yokes around the neck of such operations of sole maintenance responsibility for a long permanent way in a time of climate change and ageing volunteers. Compromises needed on all sides - but I'm not sure if it's broken enough yet for those compromises to be reached.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by IndustryInsider at 18:11, 18th May 2024 | |
I’m not sure a TransWilts rail replacement bus comparison is a good one as that takes a great deal longer than the train it replaces.
From journey time projections I’ve seen, the Minehead service would take about the same time by rail as it does by bus. It’s more the extra capacity provided by the train that would be very useful.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 18:04, 18th May 2024 | |
What percentage of visitors to Butlins currently use public transport, i.e. the unsuitable/crowded bus that is frequently referred to?
That might be a better starting percentage to start to work the business case on?
That might be a better starting percentage to start to work the business case on?
I'm not so sure. We know that when we have a rail replacement bus provided on (or rather for) our local line, traffic evaporates. People getting lifts, people going a long way round, people waiting for the next train or even choosing a different day to travel. If a train carried 40 people normally, I would be surprised to see as many as 8 on a bus.
I don't know what the parallel, if any, would be between our bus experience and the bus v potential rail experiences on the Minehead run - but let me get my fag packets out and do some arithmetic. Stories tell us both of buses that are overcrowded on turnover day, and from First that the buses [at other times?] are so quiet that they are not commercial viable. That would suggest to me that the lumpy traffic on turnover day brings a substantial number of extra people - say 40 - onto (shall we say) 4 separate services in each direction, twice a week because there are two turnover days Which all multiplies up to 33,000 journeys.
Taking my bus v train (5:1) ratio, that would suggest very roughly indeed to me that we're looking at 165,000 journeys per annum. I haven't a clue how accurate that is - but I do note that that my other very different fag packet calculation came out with 150,000 journeys for this flow.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 17:48, 18th May 2024 | |
I am not aware of any data on the proportion of Butlins customers who arrive by public transport, but my own observations suggest that it is very small indeed.
At present the ONLY public transport to the holiday camp is the 28 bus from Taunton, and national rail services to Taunton.
The bus runs twice an hour and each bus* carries about 100 passengers. That gives a MAXIMUM flow of less than one thousand spread over a few hours. And the capacity of Butlins is variously stated at between 10,00 and 15,000.
Say four full length trains, each conveying about 1000 passengers would carry a significant percentage of the total flow.
*Presuming use of double decker.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by IndustryInsider at 14:17, 18th May 2024 | |
How would you convince families, especially those travelling from further afield, who currently drive door to door to Butlins to give up the car journey in favour of carrying a weeks worth of luggage + a couple of children from home to their nearest rail station to travel by train, almost inevitably involving at least one change of train en route with said luggage, being more restrictive in terms of timings, taking longer and costing more than their current method of transport, and having to compete for space with others similarly loaded down at the same time?
Noting, please, I'm only looking to have 1 in 5 transfer to rail. Online research suggests that's not a terribly different proportion to the proportion of households without a car.
You are asking me how I would convert the most difficult group to convert, when I have a suggestion under which we do not need to convert them. Lots of potential answers here as to how a decent market penetration could be achieved - I had probably better get back to that later as I have a train to catch. Now - I could drive - however, I'll probably grab a pint or two to lubricate my voice, and I'll leave our car at home with Lisa as she has separate errands to run.
What percentage of visitors to Butlins currently use public transport, i.e. the unsuitable/crowded bus that is frequently referred to?
That might be a better starting percentage to start to work the business case on?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 14:09, 18th May 2024 | |
The main road between Minehead and Taunton ascends to a considerable height and is sometimes closed by snow, even when no snow exists in either Minehead nor in Taunton, the railway line is less vulnerable.
The narrow road is also vulnerable to closures due to accidents.
A properly run rail service should be more reliable than the bus route.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Red Squirrel at 12:22, 18th May 2024 | |
I think it's valid to compare the Minehead line with the Dartmoor Line to Okehampton.
| Minehead | Okehampton | |
| Distance from nearest NR railhead (km) | 30 | 28 |
| Population | 12,000 | 6,000 |
| Population between railhead and terminus | 9,000* | 0 |
* Watchet: 3,500 ; Williton: 2,500; Norton Fitzwarren: 3000.
The combined population of Watchet and Williton is about the same as that of Okehampton.
Given the success of the Okehampton line, isn't there is a good case to bring the Minehead Line back into the national network?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 09:16, 18th May 2024 | |
How would you convince families, especially those travelling from further afield, who currently drive door to door to Butlins to give up the car journey in favour of carrying a weeks worth of luggage + a couple of children from home to their nearest rail station to travel by train, almost inevitably involving at least one change of train en route with said luggage, being more restrictive in terms of timings, taking longer and costing more than their current method of transport, and having to compete for space with others similarly loaded down at the same time?
Noting, please, I'm only looking to have 1 in 5 transfer to rail. Online research suggests that's not a terribly different proportion to the proportion of households without a car.
You are asking me how I would convert the most difficult group to convert, when I have a suggestion under which we do not need to convert them. Lots of potential answers here as to how a decent market penetration could be achieved - I had probably better get back to that later as I have a train to catch. Now - I could drive - however, I'll probably grab a pint or two to lubricate my voice, and I'll leave our car at home with Lisa as she has separate errands to run.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TaplowGreen at 07:54, 18th May 2024 | |
No, definitely not abandoned. But maybe reconstructed as a modern environmentally friendly housing estate, with affordable homes, convenience shop - and a link to the national rail network ? 
Certainly possible, but in my view more likely that a new owner would use it as a holiday camp, and in the "off season" host large scale concerts and religious gatherings.
I have asked myself "what is the size of the mass transit flow we are talking about now and into the future for Minehead?" as I think about the mass transit needs / opportunities here. I welcome any comments / feedback on the following which is guesswork for the most part from me.
Butlins (Minehead) has a residence capacity of 7,500 and as a venue you might anticipate an occupancy rate on average year round of - what - around 50%, with a typical stay being 7 days. That's 400,000 arrivals and 400,000 departures per annum - call it 750,000 single journeys by the time you allow for some of the residences being for staff who will stay significantly longer than a week. Hard for me to even guess what sort of market penetration a rail service from 2,500 UK stations to the camp itself, at sensible cost, running reliably when people want to travel, would have - lets be bullish and say 20%. That's between 2500 and 3000 journeys on a weekly turnover day - or a half of that if the turnover is split between two days a week.
How would you convince families, especially those travelling from further afield, who currently drive door to door to Butlins to give up the car journey in favour of carrying a weeks worth of luggage + a couple of children from home to their nearest rail station to travel by train, almost inevitably involving at least one change of train en route with said luggage, being more restrictive in terms of timings, taking longer and costing more than their current method of transport, and having to compete for space with others similarly loaded down at the same time?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 06:53, 18th May 2024 | |
No, definitely not abandoned. But maybe reconstructed as a modern environmentally friendly housing estate, with affordable homes, convenience shop - and a link to the national rail network ?
Certainly possible, but in my view more likely that a new owner would use it as a holiday camp, and in the "off season" host large scale concerts and religious gatherings.
I have asked myself "what is the size of the mass transit flow we are talking about now and into the future for Minehead?" as I think about the mass transit needs / opportunities here. I welcome any comments / feedback on the following which is guesswork for the most part from me.
Butlins (Minehead) has a residence capacity of 7,500 and as a venue you might anticipate an occupancy rate on average year round of - what - around 50%, with a typical stay being 7 days. That's 400,000 arrivals and 400,000 departures per annum - call it 750,000 single journeys by the time you allow for some of the residences being for staff who will stay significantly longer than a week. Hard for me to even guess what sort of market penetration a rail service from 2,500 UK stations to the camp itself, at sensible cost, running reliably when people want to travel, would have - lets be bullish and say 20%. That's between 2500 and 3000 journeys on a weekly turnover day - or a half of that if the turnover is split between two days a week.
Minehead Town has a population of around 12,000 as I read it, which is about a half of the size of places like Frome, Warminster and Melksham where passenger numbers are roughly quarter of a million a year (Melksham being a poor outlier due to the still-poor train service there) and I could suggest that passenger journey numbers for general traffic in the area would be around 125,000 per annum - that's probably a low figure if the service was a decent and attractive one, bearing in mind the high proportion of short-stay visitors in the town.
So if you cater for both traffics and do a "good" job of it - and by "good" I mean a service that attracts traffic at a typical rate for a town / line like this, you're looking at a total of around 300,000 journeys per annum but bearing in mind all the variable that is a very very very rough guess.
I'm sure I'm not the first to be doing this "back of fag packet" arithmetic and would love to see what figures others might come up with.
Now - add in
1. A heritage operation with the same "day" as at present, but operating five days a week with turnover day given over to the National Rail extras
2. Traffic to and from stations within the Taunton area (Norton Fitzwarren and Bishops Lydeard) with park and ride and interchange options - exciting but hugely variable depending on services (as poor as Ardwick and Bordesley, or as good as Bristol Parkway or Worcestershire Parkway??)
3. Other thin but noticeable traffic for places like Williton and Watchet
4. Interchanges perhaps for destinations such as Porlock, Exmoor, Lynmouth and even Ilfracombe - whether they would be at a Minehead station or a connectional facility at Dunster, and whether they would be worthwhile, I will leave for others to comment.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 05:20, 18th May 2024 | |
No, definitely not abandoned. But maybe reconstructed as a modern environmentally friendly housing estate, with affordable homes, convenience shop - and a link to the national rail network ?
Certainly possible, but in my view more likely that a new owner would use it as a holiday camp, and in the "off season" host large scale concerts and religious gatherings.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Chris from Nailsea at 21:04, 17th May 2024 | |
No, definitely not abandoned. But maybe reconstructed as a modern environmentally friendly housing estate, with affordable homes, convenience shop - and a link to the national rail network ?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 07:36, 17th May 2024 | |
Sounds like it’s still a good 5-10 years away at the earliest then, with little impetus from the organisations that really matter in terms of funding the building of a business case, let alone funding its operation. A shame.
By which time Butlins will probably have closed.
Doubt it !
The present company that operates the holiday camp might well go bust, but the assets such as land and buildings would then be sold and operated by the new owner.
It seems most unlikely that such a large and valuable site would be abandoned.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TaplowGreen at 17:27, 16th May 2024 | |
Sounds like it’s still a good 5-10 years away at the earliest then, with little impetus from the organisations that really matter in terms of funding the building of a business case, let alone funding its operation. A shame.
By which time Butlins will probably have closed.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 16:19, 16th May 2024 | |
Got to persuade the heritage volunteers to take a 364 day job too....they can't volunteer that frequently
A whole lot of people - with varying goals and interests - need to be prepared to move a little (British understatement perhaps) out of their comfort zone. An inspirational leader, with a knowledgeable support team and a line on finance that provide a business plan, and respect in all quarters ... and you never know.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by ChrisB at 15:44, 16th May 2024 | |
Got to persuade the heritage volunteers to take a 364 day job too....they can't volunteer that frequently
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 13:17, 16th May 2024 | |
Sounds like it’s still a good 5-10 years away at the earliest then, with little impetus from the organisations that really matter in terms of funding the building of a business case, let alone funding its operation. A shame.
May sound like it ... and yet projects seem to drag along on the back burners, with a drip, drip drip of ideas busy mixing corny metaphors with an apparent lack of direction or conclusion until all the ducks suddenly get into a a line (or into the same ponds) with a bit of prodding from a few people and out of the blue and quickly the stars align.
Not too far away I look at how suddenly Okehampton leapt forward (though I know there had been ongoing mutterings for years). I know how we fought in Wiltshire for an appropriate service through Melksham and how after years of missing jigsaw pieces the majority came together and then a couple of final kicks took it over the line - an eight year project, but it was less than 8 weeks from the "round and round we go" situation to the first new train service.
Yes, sounds like years away. Very likely is. But don't bet against it being much quicker!
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by IndustryInsider at 12:55, 16th May 2024 | |
Sounds like it’s still a good 5-10 years away at the earliest then, with little impetus from the organisations that really matter in terms of funding the building of a business case, let alone funding its operation. A shame.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 11:08, 16th May 2024 | |
IMHO, by far the most important issue is to get through trains running regularly between Taunton and Minehead.
Deciding which stations on the WSR are to be served,
And deciding what trains to use,
And deciding what places beyond Taunton are to be served, are all relatively minor matters. LETS PUSH FOR A THROUGH SERVICE Before worrying about the details.
A Summer only service is better than nothing, but a regular ALL YEAR ROUND SERVICE should be the aim.
A battery powered train is arguably the best long term option, but a REGULAR SERVICE using whatever trains are available is a higher priority.
A new Butlins station would be welcome as Minehead station is too far from the holiday camp to walk with children and luggage, but a REGULAR THROUGH SERVICE TO THE EXISTING STATION is more important than potential future improvements.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by ChrisB at 10:47, 16th May 2024 | |
Possibly best to wait the outcome of the upcoming election?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 10:18, 16th May 2024 | |
I suspect no agreement until such time as the DfT wants to pay for the services....
Could we (err - wider public in general or some other body- NOT a Coffee Shop project!!) take an active positive roll in persuading the DfT / GBRR / NR / land owner of the railway / LEP to get significant funding options in place? And it just might be then that with money available all the various interested parties would be much more positive in looking for a way to spend that money to improve what they offer be it in heritage trains and stations, holiday maker travel, local traffic or the general economy of the area.
Other bodies to do the persuading - I can think of two or three bodies, and a handful of respected all around individuals, who might be up to the task or be suitable to grow into it.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by ChrisB at 09:33, 16th May 2024 | |
I suspect no agreement until such time as the DfT wants to pay for the services....
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Witham Bobby at 09:30, 16th May 2024 | |
Has the in-fighting stopped and is anyone taking the lead in drawing up some detailed proposals?
Thoroughly depressing that this question needs to be asked, near enough half a century after I joined the original in-fighters.
Still, we did actually manage to get the branch re-opened along its entire length, passed fit for passenger trains, and started a year-round service over 20 miles of route (sadly, abandoned after a few years) and kept the drea,/nightmare alive
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by IndustryInsider at 09:12, 16th May 2024 | |
"Where would it call?" remains detailed work to be done.
Has the in-fighting stopped and is anyone taking the lead in drawing up some detailed proposals?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 04:56, 16th May 2024 | |
"Where would it call?" remains detailed work to be done. The big mass flow for the mass transit system is from Taunton (where, surely, trains will call without exception - no skipping as they run from Minehead to Reading or Bristol) to Minehead (where the National Rail Station may well a new platform outwith the level crossing.
Outside that, Taunton and north / east thereof national flow, further discussion is needed and looks at the costs and just how other flows work, and the balance between costs, traffic levels, and effect on running time and those are all factors greatly effected by just how the "job" is done and by the planning and future development of West Somerset.
In addition to places already mentioned recently in this thread, there may be decisions to be made concerning passenger service at Bishop's Lydeard and at Blue Anchor. The case for Stogumber, Crowcombe, Doniford and Washford calls would almost certainly not be made if they were to be served by though trains of holiday makers at the start / end of their journeys between their homes and Butlins!
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by johnneyw at 22:44, 15th May 2024 | |
Norton Fitzwarren, Williton, Watchet; any others? Ok
Dunster perhaps.... despite the station being a little "out of town"?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Red Squirrel at 22:23, 15th May 2024 | |
Interesting, but not quite what I meant. Our recent trip to Okehampton, and also decisions being taken (or not taken) on the Marston Vale and Kingswear line lead me to wonder just how many stations would be considered to be worth serving… Norton Fitzwarren, Williton, Watchet; any others?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 21:09, 15th May 2024 | |
So… if the Minehead line were to return to the national network, which stations would be served?
Reply no. 141 on this thread had a sample timetable
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17237.msg293536#msg293536
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Red Squirrel at 18:54, 15th May 2024 | |
So… if the Minehead line were to return to the national network, which stations would be served?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 10:57, 15th May 2024 | |
I wish it would go away - to be replaced by a report from the first day of regular scheduled services from Minehead to Taunton and beyond.
There are occasions like this one when I would want a LOVE button as well as a like!
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TonyK at 10:48, 15th May 2024 | |
I wish it would go away - to be replaced by a report from the first day of regular scheduled services from Minehead to Taunton and beyond.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 21:23, 12th May 2024 | |
From Somerset Live - it's a repeated story ... won't go away. Good
Every effort must be made to get regular train services running from Taunton to connect with the West Somerset Railway, MP Ian Liddell-Grainger has insisted. He says establishing a permanent shuttle service would boost passenger numbers on the heritage line and deliver benefits to the entire West Somerset economy.
Mr Liddell-Grainger, MP for Bridgwater and West Somerset, said he was enormously impressed by the way the 22-mile long railway had been hauled back from the brink of financial failure.
[snip]
Mr Liddell-Grainger said the long hoped-for establishment of regular services between Taunton and the line’s current terminus at Bishop’s Lydeard, five miles away, had to be the next priority.
“I am aware discussions have been taking place with various service providers and since the benefits of getting a regular shuttle service - even of running commuter trains to and from Minehead - are undeniable every effort should be made to bring them to a successful conclusion,” he said. "Apart from anything else the influx of new passengers such a service would attract could be a major factor in securing the long-term survival of this much-valued tourist attraction.”
Mr Liddell-Grainger, MP for Bridgwater and West Somerset, said he was enormously impressed by the way the 22-mile long railway had been hauled back from the brink of financial failure.
[snip]
Mr Liddell-Grainger said the long hoped-for establishment of regular services between Taunton and the line’s current terminus at Bishop’s Lydeard, five miles away, had to be the next priority.
“I am aware discussions have been taking place with various service providers and since the benefits of getting a regular shuttle service - even of running commuter trains to and from Minehead - are undeniable every effort should be made to bring them to a successful conclusion,” he said. "Apart from anything else the influx of new passengers such a service would attract could be a major factor in securing the long-term survival of this much-valued tourist attraction.”
and as ever the useful comment gives an interesting view. Newly posted but the following are already there
A normal passenger service linked into the national network would be fantastic for the local economy. It would enable people living in villages along the line to commute to work in Taunton, Bristol, etc. and improve access for tourists, perhaps reducing car traffic. The steam trains are wonderful, we wouldn’t want to lose them and they are great for tourists but they are far too expensive for local people to use regularly.
A normal passenger service would help the tourists coming to Butlins in Minehead. This would eleviate the over cramped bus number 28 in the high season.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 21:09, 21st January 2021 | |
Recent reports refer to a plan to run a modern battery train from Bishops Lydeard to Taunton and Swindon.
Details herehttp://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm
Edit to add that this is discussed in "transport scholars" Suggest NOT replying here so as to keep it in one place
Details herehttp://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm
Edit to add that this is discussed in "transport scholars" Suggest NOT replying here so as to keep it in one place
Indeed ( http://www.passenger.chat/24561 ) ... but ... I have a naughty thought that says "why not run it on through to Minehead" ... Open Access in its very setup is designed to provide service which are not provided by the franchises, EMAs, ERMAs, and whatever we get next. Yes, best follow up in Transport Scholars.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 16:44, 21st January 2021 | |
Recent reports refer to a plan to run a modern battery train from Bishops Lydeard to Taunton and Swindon.
Details herehttp://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm
Details herehttp://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm
Text and discussion in "Transport Scholars" area at http://www.passenger.chat/24561 ...
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 15:34, 21st January 2021 | |
Recent reports refer to a plan to run a modern battery train from Bishops Lydeard to Taunton and Swindon.
Details herehttp://www.wsr.org.uk/news.htm
Edit to add that this is discussed in "transport scholars" Suggest NOT replying here so as to keep it in one place
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 13:09, 5th January 2021 | |
From the the Didcot Railway Centre, Facebook page, posted last Saturday.
50 years ago today, on Saturday 2 January 1971, the branch line between Taunton and Minehead closed, with the Great Western Society?s Taunton Group running the last daylight train ? a diesel multiple unit ? as shown on this poster.
The full line of almost 25 miles between Taunton and Minehead had opened 16 July 1874 as a broad gauge railway. At first the line was worked by the Bristol & Exeter Railway and then by the Great Western Railway from August 1876. The whole section between Norton Fitzwarren and Minehead was converted to standard gauge on 29 October 1882. One of the stations on the line, Crowcombe, was used in filming the Beatles 1964 film ?A Hard Day?s Night?.
Five years after closure by British Railways the line successfully reopened as the heritage West Somerset Railway.
The full line of almost 25 miles between Taunton and Minehead had opened 16 July 1874 as a broad gauge railway. At first the line was worked by the Bristol & Exeter Railway and then by the Great Western Railway from August 1876. The whole section between Norton Fitzwarren and Minehead was converted to standard gauge on 29 October 1882. One of the stations on the line, Crowcombe, was used in filming the Beatles 1964 film ?A Hard Day?s Night?.
Five years after closure by British Railways the line successfully reopened as the heritage West Somerset Railway.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Kempis at 16:06, 8th November 2020 | |
Whilst a move of some items to other locations may enhance public access and broaden appeal of S&DRT assets, I can't help wondering if the move is something they would have done as a regular decision had it not been for the actions of the PLC, or if the move is something that they were forced into and have spent money on, and are now looking for and promoting what positive they can from it?
There's a little more indication of the S&DRT's thinking in a statement from its Chairman, Ian Young, who writes:
It has been an interesting year for the S&D Railway Trust. The Chairman and Board of Directors have worked hard, ably supported by volunteers at Washford and, elsewhere, to continue the work of the Trust through incredibly difficult circumstances. We soon came to the conclusion that, notwithstanding the situation which prevailed at the time regarding the West Somerset Railway, this was an opportunity to review the Trust?s standing in the heritage sector and what the priorities should be.
It was decided that a physical move of at least some of the artefacts away from Washford where access has always been difficult, is desirable. It must also be said that, over the considerable period in which I have been involved with the Trust, this thought has cropped up time and time again, including at AGMs. Up until now we have not displayed the courage to carry this out. It is, therefore, that our joint venture with the Watercress Line is an exciting prospect.
It was decided that a physical move of at least some of the artefacts away from Washford where access has always been difficult, is desirable. It must also be said that, over the considerable period in which I have been involved with the Trust, this thought has cropped up time and time again, including at AGMs. Up until now we have not displayed the courage to carry this out. It is, therefore, that our joint venture with the Watercress Line is an exciting prospect.
https://www.sdrt.org/images/files/news/press_release_05-11-20.pdf
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Kempis at 14:12, 8th November 2020 | |
Joint Statement from West Somerset Railway PLC & The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust Limited
Published: 6th November 2020 ((here))
Published: 6th November 2020 ((here))
The West Somerset Railway PLC (PLC) and the Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust (S & DRT) can confirm that they have opened discussions regarding a new 10-year lease for the Trust to occupy the Washford site. This follows from Washford Yard not now being required by the PLC in its entirety in the foreseeable future although the PLC will still, by agreement with the Trust wish to use the Yard from time to time during the period of the new lease. Any future arrangement will exclude the station which will revert to PLC management. This will allow the Trust to continue with their restoration and maintenance work on their rolling stock at Washford whilst at the same time making arrangements for relocation of artefacts to other sites. The Trust had already completed a strategic review of how it is fulfilling its charitable objectives. It has concluded that moving its Museum items and some of its rolling stock to other locations will enhance their access by the public and broaden the appeal of the Trust.
On 5 November, the day before the date of the joint statement linked above, the Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust, the Mid Hants Railway Ltd and the Mid Hants Railway Preservation Society announced that 'they are in detailed discussions regarding the relocation of rolling stock and artefacts belonging to the S&DRT from Washford on the West Somerset Railway to the Watercress Line in Hampshire':
https://preservation.watercressline.co.uk/news/entry/rolling-stock-and-artefacts-to-be-relocated-from-west-somerset-railway-to-w
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by ellendune at 10:43, 8th November 2020 | |
Whilst a move of some items to other locations may enhance public access and broaden appeal of S&DRT assets, I can't help wondering if the move is something they would have done as a regular decision had it not been for the actions of the PLC, or if the move is something that they were forced into and have spent money on, and are now looking for and promoting what positive they can from it?
Yes, as so many organisations are finding at the moment for a different reason, adverse circumstances sometimes make you look for a different course only to discover, when you have found it, that the new course was a better one than the one you have been following before!
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 05:13, 8th November 2020 | |
Joint Statement from West Somerset Railway PLC & The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust Limited
Published: 6th November 2020 ((here))
The West Somerset Railway PLC (PLC) and the Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust (S & DRT) can confirm that they have opened discussions regarding a new 10-year lease for the Trust to occupy the Washford site. This follows from Washford Yard not now being required by the PLC in its entirety in the foreseeable future although the PLC will still, by agreement with the Trust wish to use the Yard from time to time during the period of the new lease. Any future arrangement will exclude the station which will revert to PLC management. This will allow the Trust to continue with their restoration and maintenance work on their rolling stock at Washford whilst at the same time making arrangements for relocation of artefacts to other sites. The Trust had already completed a strategic review of how it is fulfilling its charitable objectives. It has concluded that moving its Museum items and some of its rolling stock to other locations will enhance their access by the public and broaden the appeal of the Trust.
Whilst a move of some items to other locations may enhance public access and broaden appeal of S&DRT assets, I can't help wondering if the move is something they would have done as a regular decision had it not been for the actions of the PLC, or if the move is something that they were forced into and have spent money on, and are now looking for and promoting what positive they can from it?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 09:51, 20th October 2020 | |
Roland Bushell, an admin of the Minehead Rail Link Group, posts
This is definitely worth a read. I have a lot of time for Steve Edge - his website is far better than most of the `official' heritage sites out there, and he has long been a supporter of all things WSR. It doesn`t mean I agree with him on everything by any means, but this is a good analysis of the current situation with some revealing contributions in the timeline from different members of the `family'. I`ll not comment beyond this introduction myself, and there is quite a significant gap in Steve's reflections. But its still a pretty good summary for anybody wondering just what is happening.
https://transformwsr.wordpress.com/2020/10/19/keep-it-simple/
https://transformwsr.wordpress.com/2020/10/19/keep-it-simple/
"Keep it Simple" says that article and illustrations with diagrams of how the organsations relate to each other now, and in thoughts. It does not get into the structure within each of the three organsistions and the proposed new one. It does hint at "power games" for control of a new central organisation.
An article in the current ?Steam Railway? magazine covered current progress. A few days ago, I sent the words below to the Chairmen of the ?WSR3? (WSSRT, WSRA and WSR Plc). Replies were received from the WSRA and WSSRT for which I am grateful. It seems all is not sweetness and light yet.
?To me, the Steam Railway article serves only to confirm the Plc?s intention to create a new charity making all the final decisions. Consultations, yes; approval by PDG, yes. But it?s not looking like a pan-Railway project, just another unilateral decision by the Plc, rather than the ?WSR3? (WSRA, WSSRT, WSR Plc) which is what I?d hoped for.?
What does this mean for heritage train services over some or all of the line next year? For connections by rail to and from the National Network? To safeguarding the line and use for the future? To the railway line providing public rail transport into the main national network daily, all day, all year?
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by at 00:49, 12th October 2020 | |
The present management and directors of the WSR seem to be asserting their authority now in a way not seen before. I'm not convinced this is for the better. But they do have the laws of finance to contend with, and this may have concentrated their minds somewhat. The Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust, who have been sub-leesees of the site at Washford Station since the 1970's, have been given a year's notice to quit very recently
From Rail Advent posted earlier today
The Somerset and Dorset Railway Trust (S&DRT) have posted the sad news they have been asked to leave the Washford site.
The S&DRT received a letter from solicitors on behalf of the West Somerset Railway PLC, owners of the Washford site, with a Notice to Terminate on the agreement allowing S&DRT to use the Washford site, giving the S&DRT a years notice.
The one reason the WSR PLC have stated so far for asking the S&DRT to leave is to allow the WSR PLC to use the site for its own purposes, but no further details have been added. The S&DRT have sent a response and are now seeking legal advice.
The S&DRT received a letter from solicitors on behalf of the West Somerset Railway PLC, owners of the Washford site, with a Notice to Terminate on the agreement allowing S&DRT to use the Washford site, giving the S&DRT a years notice.
The one reason the WSR PLC have stated so far for asking the S&DRT to leave is to allow the WSR PLC to use the site for its own purposes, but no further details have been added. The S&DRT have sent a response and are now seeking legal advice.
The West Somerset Railway has issued a statement over them giving the Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway notice to leave their Washford site says Rail Advent
The West Somerset Railway has said that ‘The Somerset & Dorset Joint Railway Trust seems governed in such a way that it meant they felt unable to assist us financially other than allowing the WSR to hold and retain the modest profits from the Real Ale Festival last year’
The West Somerset Railway has also said that the SDJRT acted like a ‘cuckoo in the nest’ during their crisis period, which the PLC found unacceptable.
As a result of this, they have given the railway a year’s notice to remove themselves from the Washford site.
Currently, the Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust occupies some of the land adjacent to Washford railway station, and have done so for many years.
However, the West Somerset Railway has said that the rent the SDJRT pays is far lower than any other organisation occupying space elsewhere on the railway.
The WSR has a plan to develop the Washford site to meet their needs which will include P-Way vehicle and equipment storage, workshops and covered winter accommodation.
The West Somerset Railway has also said that the SDJRT acted like a ‘cuckoo in the nest’ during their crisis period, which the PLC found unacceptable.
As a result of this, they have given the railway a year’s notice to remove themselves from the Washford site.
Currently, the Somerset & Dorset Railway Trust occupies some of the land adjacent to Washford railway station, and have done so for many years.
However, the West Somerset Railway has said that the rent the SDJRT pays is far lower than any other organisation occupying space elsewhere on the railway.
The WSR has a plan to develop the Washford site to meet their needs which will include P-Way vehicle and equipment storage, workshops and covered winter accommodation.
So basically the WSR gets into financial trouble due to poor management, they then go to the S&DRT for money, they rightly refuse to help other than giving some profits from the real ale festival, as it could cause harm to them. Consequently the WSR serve them an eviction notice? Seems very pathetic & childish to me, I hate to think what these idiots are doing running a railway!
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 08:54, 10th October 2020 | |
On a completely unrelated note, we came across an interesting post on a Jack Russell dog forum (we have 2 at home). An owner had become increasingly concerned that her previously healthy, vibrant dog kept drinking whole bowls of water one after the other - she literally couldnt fill it up fast enough!
On closer inspection though, it became clear that the bowl had been fatally compromised by a hairline crack, and no matter how much water she poured into it, it would simply drain away, and the poor dog was deprived of any of the life-sustaining benefits.
There was nothing for it but to throw the broken old bowl out, and replace it with a completely new one. Both dog and owner are understandably far more relieved and happy going forward as a result.
My apologies for this off-topic wander - I will now let you get back to discussing Minehead and the future of the WSR
On closer inspection though, it became clear that the bowl had been fatally compromised by a hairline crack, and no matter how much water she poured into it, it would simply drain away, and the poor dog was deprived of any of the life-sustaining benefits.
There was nothing for it but to throw the broken old bowl out, and replace it with a completely new one. Both dog and owner are understandably far more relieved and happy going forward as a result.
My apologies for this off-topic wander - I will now let you get back to discussing Minehead and the future of the WSR
Yeah, right
. ... looks like a fable. Was the new bowl automatically like the old one, which has been of a design shown to have an issue, or did the owner take the opportunity to consider carefully whether to move to a different design more suited for the particular dog in question?Only time will tell...But you summed up an entirely unconnected dilemma neatly in the intro to your split-off thread...
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 19:09, 9th October 2020 | |
On a completely unrelated note, we came across an interesting post on a Jack Russell dog forum (we have 2 at home). An owner had become increasingly concerned that her previously healthy, vibrant dog kept drinking whole bowls of water one after the other - she literally couldnt fill it up fast enough!
On closer inspection though, it became clear that the bowl had been fatally compromised by a hairline crack, and no matter how much water she poured into it, it would simply drain away, and the poor dog was deprived of any of the life-sustaining benefits.
There was nothing for it but to throw the broken old bowl out, and replace it with a completely new one. Both dog and owner are understandably far more relieved and happy going forward as a result.
My apologies for this off-topic wander - I will now let you get back to discussing Minehead and the future of the WSR
On closer inspection though, it became clear that the bowl had been fatally compromised by a hairline crack, and no matter how much water she poured into it, it would simply drain away, and the poor dog was deprived of any of the life-sustaining benefits.
There was nothing for it but to throw the broken old bowl out, and replace it with a completely new one. Both dog and owner are understandably far more relieved and happy going forward as a result.
My apologies for this off-topic wander - I will now let you get back to discussing Minehead and the future of the WSR
Yeah, right
. ... looks like a fable. Was the new bowl automatically like the old one, which has been of a design shown to have an issue, or did the owner take the opportunity to consider carefully whether to move to a different design more suited for the particular dog in question?| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 19:02, 9th October 2020 | |
From the West Somerset Free Press
West Somerset Railway is to get a huge cash injection that could get it back on track. MP Ian Liddell-Graingers says the ?865,000 Government grant could prove to be the life-saver the WSR desperately needs.
He said the grant should help the railway company make an early return to normal services on the 22-mile line between Minehead and Bishop?s Lydeard.
The full report will be in next Friday?s Free Press.
He said the grant should help the railway company make an early return to normal services on the 22-mile line between Minehead and Bishop?s Lydeard.
The full report will be in next Friday?s Free Press.
General discussion on funding for dozens of other heritage operations - http://www.passenger.chat/24103
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 12:24, 9th October 2020 | |
Good to see other heritage railways in the region have also received some support.
29 out of 433 awards have "Rail" in their organisation name:
906000 Award Severn Valley Railway (Holdings) Public Limited Company
865000 Award West Somerset Railway Plc.
727200 Award Bluebell Railway PLC
600000 Award Mid Hants Railway Ltd / Mid Hants Railway Preservation Society Ltd (MHRPS)
470000 Award Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway
360000 Award North Norfolk Railway plc
332300 Award South Devon Railway Trust
318000 Award Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway plc
301500 Award The Kent and East Sussex Railway Company Limited
245500 Award Tanfield Railway Company Limited
231600 Award Keighley & Worth Valley Railway Preservation Society
223200 Award Swanage Railway Company
207200 Award Ribble Steam Railway Ltd
190500 Award The Mid Norfolk Railway Preservation Trust
153900 Award Wealden Railway Company Limited
98000 Award Epping Ongar Railway Holdings Limited
90000 Award Wensleydale Railway Plc
85000 Award WyvernRail plc
84300 Award South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society
79900 Award Middleton Railway Trust
76100 Award Helston Railway Preservation Company Ltd
49000 Award The Whitwell & Reepham Railway Preservation Society Ltd
46000 Award Northampton Steam Railway Limited
27900 Award Plym Valley Railway Company Limited
26500 Award Sittingbourne and Kemsley Light Railway Limited
25000 Award Great Northern & East Lincolnshire Railway Ltd T?A Lincolnshire Wolds Railway
21300 Award Aln Valley Railway Trust
20000 Award Colne Valley Railway Preservation Ltd.
20000 Award Cambrian Heritage Railways Limited
865000 Award West Somerset Railway Plc.
727200 Award Bluebell Railway PLC
600000 Award Mid Hants Railway Ltd / Mid Hants Railway Preservation Society Ltd (MHRPS)
470000 Award Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway
360000 Award North Norfolk Railway plc
332300 Award South Devon Railway Trust
318000 Award Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway plc
301500 Award The Kent and East Sussex Railway Company Limited
245500 Award Tanfield Railway Company Limited
231600 Award Keighley & Worth Valley Railway Preservation Society
223200 Award Swanage Railway Company
207200 Award Ribble Steam Railway Ltd
190500 Award The Mid Norfolk Railway Preservation Trust
153900 Award Wealden Railway Company Limited
98000 Award Epping Ongar Railway Holdings Limited
90000 Award Wensleydale Railway Plc
85000 Award WyvernRail plc
84300 Award South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society
79900 Award Middleton Railway Trust
76100 Award Helston Railway Preservation Company Ltd
49000 Award The Whitwell & Reepham Railway Preservation Society Ltd
46000 Award Northampton Steam Railway Limited
27900 Award Plym Valley Railway Company Limited
26500 Award Sittingbourne and Kemsley Light Railway Limited
25000 Award Great Northern & East Lincolnshire Railway Ltd T?A Lincolnshire Wolds Railway
21300 Award Aln Valley Railway Trust
20000 Award Colne Valley Railway Preservation Ltd.
20000 Award Cambrian Heritage Railways Limited
Widen in to "Heritage" and "Preservation" as well and you get more than twice the number:
:
Aln Valley Railway Trust Award ?21,300
Barnsley Museums and Heritage Trust Award ?24,000
Bath Preservation Trust Award ?825,400
Bluebell Railway PLC Award ?727,200
Cambrian Heritage Railways Limited Award ?20,000
Canalside Heritage Centre Award ?99,800
Christian Heritage Award ?25,000
Colne Valley Railway Preservation Ltd. Award ?20,000
Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre Award ?53,200
Daniel Adamson Preservation Society Award ?151,000
Delapre Abbey Preservation Trust Award ?143,100
Epping Ongar Railway Holdings Limited Award ?98,000
Fly Navy Heritage Trust Award ?280,400
Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway plc Award ?318,000
Great Northern & East Lincolnshire Railway Ltd T?A Lincolnshire Wolds Railway Award ?25,000
Great Yarmouth Preservation Trust Award ?140,000
Hartlebury Castle Preservation Trust Award ?166,500
Helston Railway Preservation Company Ltd Award ?76,100
Heritage Trust for the North West Award ?187,600
Heritage Trust of Lincolnshire Award ?278,200
Hoghton Tower Preservation Trust Award ?106,700
Keevill Heritage Ltd Award ?19,500
Keighley & Worth Valley Railway Preservation Society Award ?231,600
Mid Hants Railway Ltd / Mid Hants Railway Preservation Society Ltd (MHRPS) Award ?600,000
Middleton Railway Trust Award ?79,900
Morecambe Winter Gardens Preservation Trust Award ?20,800
Mountain Heritage Trust Award ?17,400
New Brighton Heritage and Information Centre Award ?15,000
Nimrod Preservation Group XV232 C.I.C. Award ?11,100
North Norfolk Railway plc Award ?360,000
Northampton Steam Railway Limited Award ?46,000
Nottingham Heritage Vehicles Charity Award ?24,200
Pendeen Community Heritage Award ?186,300
Pilgrim Heritage Sailing Foundation Award ?38,000
Plym Valley Railway Company Limited Award ?27,900
Re-Form Heritage Award ?26,300
Ribble Steam Railway Ltd Award ?207,200
Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway Award ?470,000
Severn Valley Railway (Holdings) Public Limited Company Award ?906,000
Sharpe's Pottery Heritage and Arts Trust Award ?127,800
Silverstone Heritage Ltd / The Silverstone Experience Award ?572,000
Sittingbourne and Kemsley Light Railway Limited Award ?26,500
Slough Fort Preservation Trust Award ?10,900
South Devon Railway Trust Award ?332,300
South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society Award ?84,300
Sporting Heritage Community Interest Company Award ?97,000
St Bartholomew's Heritage Award ?151,600
Swanage Railway Company Award ?223,200
Tanfield Railway Company Limited Award ?245,500
The Dronfield Heritage Trust Award ?79,200
The Kent and East Sussex Railway Company Limited Award ?301,500
The Mid Norfolk Railway Preservation Trust Award ?190,500
The New Mechanics Institution Preservation Trust Ltd (and The Mechanics Institution Trust Enterprises Ltd) Award ?42,300
The Saltaire World Heritage Education Association Award ?13,200
The Whitwell & Reepham Railway Preservation Society Ltd Award ?49,000
Triskele Heritage Award ?15,100
Wealden Railway Company Limited Award ?153,900
Wensleydale Railway Plc Award ?90,000
Wentworth Woodhouse Preservation Trust Ltd Award ?468,300
West Somerset Railway Plc. Award ?865,000
World Heritage UK Award ?16,700
WyvernRail plc Award ?85,000
Barnsley Museums and Heritage Trust Award ?24,000
Bath Preservation Trust Award ?825,400
Bluebell Railway PLC Award ?727,200
Cambrian Heritage Railways Limited Award ?20,000
Canalside Heritage Centre Award ?99,800
Christian Heritage Award ?25,000
Colne Valley Railway Preservation Ltd. Award ?20,000
Cornwall Aviation Heritage Centre Award ?53,200
Daniel Adamson Preservation Society Award ?151,000
Delapre Abbey Preservation Trust Award ?143,100
Epping Ongar Railway Holdings Limited Award ?98,000
Fly Navy Heritage Trust Award ?280,400
Gloucestershire Warwickshire Steam Railway plc Award ?318,000
Great Northern & East Lincolnshire Railway Ltd T?A Lincolnshire Wolds Railway Award ?25,000
Great Yarmouth Preservation Trust Award ?140,000
Hartlebury Castle Preservation Trust Award ?166,500
Helston Railway Preservation Company Ltd Award ?76,100
Heritage Trust for the North West Award ?187,600
Heritage Trust of Lincolnshire Award ?278,200
Hoghton Tower Preservation Trust Award ?106,700
Keevill Heritage Ltd Award ?19,500
Keighley & Worth Valley Railway Preservation Society Award ?231,600
Mid Hants Railway Ltd / Mid Hants Railway Preservation Society Ltd (MHRPS) Award ?600,000
Middleton Railway Trust Award ?79,900
Morecambe Winter Gardens Preservation Trust Award ?20,800
Mountain Heritage Trust Award ?17,400
New Brighton Heritage and Information Centre Award ?15,000
Nimrod Preservation Group XV232 C.I.C. Award ?11,100
North Norfolk Railway plc Award ?360,000
Northampton Steam Railway Limited Award ?46,000
Nottingham Heritage Vehicles Charity Award ?24,200
Pendeen Community Heritage Award ?186,300
Pilgrim Heritage Sailing Foundation Award ?38,000
Plym Valley Railway Company Limited Award ?27,900
Re-Form Heritage Award ?26,300
Ribble Steam Railway Ltd Award ?207,200
Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway Award ?470,000
Severn Valley Railway (Holdings) Public Limited Company Award ?906,000
Sharpe's Pottery Heritage and Arts Trust Award ?127,800
Silverstone Heritage Ltd / The Silverstone Experience Award ?572,000
Sittingbourne and Kemsley Light Railway Limited Award ?26,500
Slough Fort Preservation Trust Award ?10,900
South Devon Railway Trust Award ?332,300
South Tynedale Railway Preservation Society Award ?84,300
Sporting Heritage Community Interest Company Award ?97,000
St Bartholomew's Heritage Award ?151,600
Swanage Railway Company Award ?223,200
Tanfield Railway Company Limited Award ?245,500
The Dronfield Heritage Trust Award ?79,200
The Kent and East Sussex Railway Company Limited Award ?301,500
The Mid Norfolk Railway Preservation Trust Award ?190,500
The New Mechanics Institution Preservation Trust Ltd (and The Mechanics Institution Trust Enterprises Ltd) Award ?42,300
The Saltaire World Heritage Education Association Award ?13,200
The Whitwell & Reepham Railway Preservation Society Ltd Award ?49,000
Triskele Heritage Award ?15,100
Wealden Railway Company Limited Award ?153,900
Wensleydale Railway Plc Award ?90,000
Wentworth Woodhouse Preservation Trust Ltd Award ?468,300
West Somerset Railway Plc. Award ?865,000
World Heritage UK Award ?16,700
WyvernRail plc Award ?85,000
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Andy at 11:56, 9th October 2020 | |
Good to see other heritage railways in the region have also received some support.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by bradshaw at 11:42, 9th October 2020 | |
Full list in alphabetical order at this site
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/925262/List_of_under__1m_awards_9_Oct.pdf
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 10:40, 9th October 2020 | |
BBC points west(at 07:25am on friday) are reporting that Minehead station will get ?900,000 pounds from the heritage fund.
Should be shown again during the morning local news.
Should be shown again during the morning local news.
From the West Somerset Railway ... a long article with a great deal of information. Excellent news for the WSR!
The West Somerset Railway (WSR) has announced today Friday 9 October that its recent application to the Department of Culture, Media and Sport?s (DCMS) ?Culture Recovery Fund for Heritage? support has been successful. The Plc will now receive a grant of ?865,000, all of which will help the 23-mile former GWR branch line recover from the enforced closure of the railway since March during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.
On a completely unrelated note, we came across an interesting post on a Jack Russell dog forum (we have 2 at home). An owner had become increasingly concerned that her previously healthy, vibrant dog kept drinking whole bowls of water one after the other - she literally couldnt fill it up fast enough!
On closer inspection though, it became clear that the bowl had been fatally compromised by a hairline crack, and no matter how much water she poured into it, it would simply drain away, and the poor dog was deprived of any of the life-sustaining benefits.
There was nothing for it but to throw the broken old bowl out, and replace it with a completely new one. Both dog and owner are understandably far more relieved and happy going forward as a result.
My apologies for this off-topic wander - I will now let you get back to discussing Minehead and the future of the WSR
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by bobm at 09:56, 9th October 2020 | |
Paul Clifton of the BBC has also tweeted that money has gone to the Watercress Line and the Swanage Railway too.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 09:32, 9th October 2020 | |
BBC points west(at 07:25am on friday) are reporting that Minehead station will get ?900,000 pounds from the heritage fund.
Should be shown again during the morning local news.
Should be shown again during the morning local news.
From the West Somerset Railway ... a long article with a great deal of information. Excellent news for the WSR!
The West Somerset Railway (WSR) has announced today Friday 9 October that its recent application to the Department of Culture, Media and Sport?s (DCMS) ?Culture Recovery Fund for Heritage? support has been successful. The Plc will now receive a grant of ?865,000, all of which will help the 23-mile former GWR branch line recover from the enforced closure of the railway since March during the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by infoman at 07:34, 9th October 2020 | |
BBC points west(at 07:25am on friday) are reporting that Minehead station will get ?900,000 pounds from the heritage fund.
Should be shown again during the morning local news.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 18:42, 6th October 2020 | |
Funny things, Facebook posts ... someone has just posted this from last year.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/mineheadraillinkgroup/permalink/1250025698676811
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by AMLAG at 22:52, 4th October 2020 | |
The WSR has stated that no passenger trains will run from and to Minehead (irrespective of the Virus situation) until next March. This is due to the Somerset County Council funded and organised renewal and updating of the Level Crossing at Minehead and associated railway signalling not being completed until then.
Hand signalling of passenger trains across the Level Crossing is, some may be surprised to learn, deemed undesirable.
The currently planned Santa trains are only running from Bishops Lydiard to Williton and back.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 19:31, 4th October 2020 | |
It all seems so long ago ...
...since we had the last instalment of your masterplan to revive (it will soon be "reopen" at this rate) the line.
More please
I'm noting that John Bailey of the North Yorkshire Moors Railway has taken a full look and written a report / recommendations, further (as I undertstand it) has at least followed up at certain meetings, from various minutes online. From those various minutes, they're also sharing with / learning from the team on the Swanage Railway. Whether the ideas / experts are used to their positive full advantage to supplement and co-ordinate local skills, and whether they're available enough to do so, and whether they have everyone's full support, let's see over the next months.
From those same minutes ... plans to run Santa Specials from Bishop's Lydeard to Williton are being made ... which will involve an ECS working from Minehead. Notable by its absence from those notes - any plans for any trains after 24th December.
But before you look forward to celebrating Santa through Stogumber - look at the website timetable page ( https://www.west-somerset-railway.co.uk/timetables ) which over this weekend has stated:
At the present time we are not clear when the railway will reopen, but this information will be posted here, as soon as it becomes available. We are working to maintain the railway, and plan to operate a service as soon as we can. We regret however that for the remainder of this year, 2020, all special events, including galas and dining trains, have been cancelled. (This information supersedes any information about these events elsewhere in this website. In some cases that information is still shown so that you may plan for the future.)
The front of the website - comes up with a big popup:
COVID 19 AND THE WEST SOMERSET RAILWAY
We regret that the West Somerset Railway is currently not running services due to the Covid-19 virus pandemic. We are fully complying with and following government guidance. However we will be holding a smaller than normal 1940s event over the weekend of 12th and 13th September 2020 for more information please visit the Events and Experiences page on our website. At the present time we are not clear when the railway will start to run services, but this information will be posted here, as soon as it becomes available. We are working to maintain the railway, and plan to operate a service as soon as we can. We regret however that for the remainder of this year, 2020, the majority of our special events, including galas and dining trains, have been cancelled. No bookings for any of these events are being taken at the present time apart from the 1940s event. We are very sorry to have had to take these decisions, and we very much look forward to welcoming you back to the West Somerset Railway as soon as we are able to do so. If you would like to donate to the West Somerset Railway, please click on the picture.
We regret that the West Somerset Railway is currently not running services due to the Covid-19 virus pandemic. We are fully complying with and following government guidance. However we will be holding a smaller than normal 1940s event over the weekend of 12th and 13th September 2020 for more information please visit the Events and Experiences page on our website. At the present time we are not clear when the railway will start to run services, but this information will be posted here, as soon as it becomes available. We are working to maintain the railway, and plan to operate a service as soon as we can. We regret however that for the remainder of this year, 2020, the majority of our special events, including galas and dining trains, have been cancelled. No bookings for any of these events are being taken at the present time apart from the 1940s event. We are very sorry to have had to take these decisions, and we very much look forward to welcoming you back to the West Somerset Railway as soon as we are able to do so. If you would like to donate to the West Somerset Railway, please click on the picture.
and the use of "will" indicates it was written a while back and not updated when the date passed. And in any case the event touted to all new arriving visitors got amended to an unspecified later date
Mineheads 1940s weekend postponed
Published: 10th September 2020
Following discussions between the organisers the West Somerset Railway and Minehead BID it was been decided with sadness to postpone this weekends planned 1940s event in Minehead.
Published: 10th September 2020
Following discussions between the organisers the West Somerset Railway and Minehead BID it was been decided with sadness to postpone this weekends planned 1940s event in Minehead.
No conclusion from me, Lee ... except to suggest that if they really are all sorting themselves out, they would do well to have starightforward, joint, and current statement on the web site to that effect, and to take down / mark as "archive - see xxx" all the other contradictory stuff.
If they get sorted out, good. If they fail, perhaps there would be an opportunity for a respected elder statesman - a newly retired transport industry boss with a track record of positive community engagement who's got experience of the area but has not been tainted by significant association with any of the groups. I have several it could be in mind.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 10:33, 3rd October 2020 | |
It all seems so long ago ...
...since we had the last instalment of your masterplan to revive (it will soon be "reopen" at this rate) the line.
More please
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 10:09, 3rd October 2020 | |
It all seems so long ago ... can someone check / remind me, please? West Somerset Railway was closed overwinter and that ran direct into the covid shutdown. What was the last date that a train called at Blue Anchor? Last Christmas specials??
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 10:01, 25th September 2020 | |
From the West Somerset Free Press
THE controversy surrounding the three organisations running the West Somerset Railway escalated further this week when it was claimed that moves to merge two charities would only result in ?bitterness, anger and distrust?.
But don't we already have bitterness, anger and distrust in large measure and in public ... enough to put off other organisations and individuals who might otherwise be very supportive in normal, and these abnormal, times.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Red Squirrel at 13:40, 8th September 2020 | |
There's a very good poem by Simon Rae called, as I remember, 'All-purpose late 20th century creed'. I am surprised I can't find it online, but from memory it ends something like:
...in the pursuit of peace, all wars (excepting mine) shall cease.
It's that darned 'excepting mine' that gets you every time...
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 11:49, 8th September 2020 | |
And not forgetting the Minehead rail link group, and the broadgage BBTB group, which is related to the broadgage P+S group, though these two work well together and are not in competition.
I had forgotten about the Judean Popular People's Front, as many do.And so it goes on ... from the Minehead Rail Link Facebook page ... the troops are amassing ready for the Battle of Blue Anchor ...
If members here are following the evolving drama concerning what the WSR have called a `hostile' takeover of the WSSRT, here`s the latest from the `rebels' themselves. I`ll not add anything to this other than to note that across social media, the `rebels' seem to have more support for their planned action than the opposition have for their defence so far. But please, as ever, make up your own minds.
As a public group, everyone is welcome to read the message which I have mirrored ((here)) and the comments via https://www.facebook.com/groups/mineheadraillinkgroup/permalink/1225759217770126/ . From the outside, it does seem to be a very different metric to many other heritage railways - noticed by a contributor
The WSR Plc is near bankrupt and expects to run on donations again for this year.
The likes of the mid Hants railway has been running a train service for sometime now along with others.
At the end of the furlong in October the remaining WSR paid staff of the railway be out of a job.
The likes of the mid Hants railway has been running a train service for sometime now along with others.
At the end of the furlong in October the remaining WSR paid staff of the railway be out of a job.
Having said which ... no trains to Bronwydd Arms, Bodmin, Brechin, Bo'ness, Corris, Stanhope .... perhaps they have very similar problems, perhaps even dirty washing which, however, has not come to such wide public attention.
Edit to add ... P.S. Lots of references the Bailey Report. Not found a copy, but discussion at https://www.wsfp.co.uk/article.cfm?id=124137 which makes it very clear on much of what is in there.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TonyK at 11:19, 8th September 2020 | |
And not forgetting the Minehead rail link group, and the broadgage BBTB group, which is related to the broadgage P+S group, though these two work well together and are not in competition.
I had forgotten about the Judean Popular People's Front, as many do.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 15:55, 6th September 2020 | |
And not forgetting the Minehead rail link group, and the broadgage BBTB group, which is related to the broadgage P+S group, though these two work well together and are not in competition.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by GBM at 15:43, 6th September 2020 | |
This is getting a bit People's Front of Judea vs. Judean People's Front (splitters!).
Not related to the Tooting Popular Front then! (going back too many years) 
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 14:26, 6th September 2020 | |
This is getting a bit People's Front of Judea vs. Judean People's Front (splitters!).
I agree, unfortunately.
Perhaps that should be Public limited front of Judea, versus Judean peoples association.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TonyK at 13:49, 6th September 2020 | |
This is getting a bit People's Front of Judea vs. Judean People's Front (splitters!).
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 07:09, 6th September 2020 | |
Glad to hear of the cooperation between the two groups, but I still feel that a more unified structure would be preferable.
It seems that only some groups are at peace, other not so ....
I fear that elements are fighting for what they believe, but terms like "fighting to the death" and "Pyrric victory" come to mind as I look at potential outcomes. I don't see how that sort of outcome is in the interests of a vibrant contribution to the local economy, be it in terms of tourist attraction and income, or in terms of national connectivity or (lest we cease to dream) ... both! And if volunteers want to be able to volunteer in the future, staff want jobs in the future, shareholders want value in their shares and/or see a reward in their investment bearing positive fruit, this is not good for that prognosis.
While there is what looks like infighting going on between apparently significant (at least very noisy) parties, those who can or could help such as the land owner, the local MP, government agencies, local authorities, potential funders, respected elder statesmen, will be reluctant to put their time, name, or money towards helping to provide an asset for the West Somerset area. Should everyone close get behind a unified plan - rather in the same way that a coalition of views can come together with cabinet responsibility and compromises, these necessary wider helpers might well come on board.
Just my personal thought ... but not out of line with what's being said on social media ...
Images in this post may be enlarged to more readable size if you "view image in separate window"
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 13:25, 1st September 2020 | |
Glad to hear of the cooperation between the two groups, but I still feel that a more unified structure would be preferable.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 12:01, 1st September 2020 | |
From the West Somerset Railway Association
The trustees of the West Somerset Railway Association (WSRA), and the board of the West Somerset Railway PLC (PLC) are pleased to announce that they have reached an agreement which will financially support the railway during these challenging times. Today’s agreement means that:
• The WSRA has sold their promotions business (which operates a shop & café at Bishops Lydeard and a restoration workshop at Williton) to the PLC
• The PLC will pay the WSRA an agreed sum of £90,721 for the assets of that business
• The WSRA will loan £70,000 to support the PLC, which has been prevented from operating by the Covid-19 restrictions. The low-interest loan is secured by charges on two WSR PLC owned coaches.
Mike Sherwood, acting Chairman of the WSRA said “I am pleased that we have been able to conclude this matter to the satisfaction of both parties. The WSRA will now be able to give its full attention to fundraising on behalf of the railway, to further supplement the financial support we are already providing at Williton, Minehead and via the rail renewal campaign”
Jonathan Jones-Pratt Chairman of the PLC said “Both parties have worked hard to bring this matter to a successful conclusion. We can now move on to focus on the preparations and funding necessary to bring the railway back into operation”.
• The WSRA has sold their promotions business (which operates a shop & café at Bishops Lydeard and a restoration workshop at Williton) to the PLC
• The PLC will pay the WSRA an agreed sum of £90,721 for the assets of that business
• The WSRA will loan £70,000 to support the PLC, which has been prevented from operating by the Covid-19 restrictions. The low-interest loan is secured by charges on two WSR PLC owned coaches.
Mike Sherwood, acting Chairman of the WSRA said “I am pleased that we have been able to conclude this matter to the satisfaction of both parties. The WSRA will now be able to give its full attention to fundraising on behalf of the railway, to further supplement the financial support we are already providing at Williton, Minehead and via the rail renewal campaign”
Jonathan Jones-Pratt Chairman of the PLC said “Both parties have worked hard to bring this matter to a successful conclusion. We can now move on to focus on the preparations and funding necessary to bring the railway back into operation”.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 01:55, 30th August 2020 | |
Thank you, gentlemen, for those early comments - and from knowledgable strength too. Lots of choices made in coming up with what is an example of what could be done - I have tried to be "middle of road" most of the way but may have put too much expense in with a new platform, and too little be stretching infrastructure - I am acutely aware of awkward signalling conflicts across Norton Fitzwarren and the limitations of where the branch can be entered and left from, and issues of interfacing with existing national rail requirements not [yet] fully addressed at a major operating point. Inputs - expert / community / financial - would / will test the choices made.
Good to hear of "striking similarities" to the earlier days proposals; what I came up with looked from current first principles rather than reading back through old papers, so the similarities are an additional re-assurance - if I have come up, independently, with something along the same lines, it would suggest it may not be 100% a mad thought.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 21:47, 29th August 2020 | |
I see relatively little risk in national network services running to/from the present Minehead station.
Whilst there might a slight increase in vandalism and theft risk, I doubt that this would be significant.
The existing station is far from secure at present, the gate can be locked but the low fence is easy to climb. Access is also easy by walking along the track for a short distance from the adjacent level crossing.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 19:31, 29th August 2020 | |
Looking good - I personally would call the last trains from both Minehead and Taunton at all stations, given that you dont have to pass them anywhere.
Only time for a very quick glance at moment, so may be back with more later. Looks like a great effort though.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Witham Bobby at 19:16, 29th August 2020 | |
Well thought out, Grahame
Striking similarity to the timetable which was in mind back in 1978. Except for the late evening services. Back then, there didn’t seem to be much point.
The weakness is the lack opportunity to cope when things go wrong; there’s no spare capacity in terms of vacant paths in summer. I guess the same can be said of all the West Country branches, though
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 18:55, 29th August 2020 | |
Footnote - a guess at what a National Rail service could look like
Year 1:
80 minute journeys ...
From Minehead at
05*45, 07#05, 09z00, 12w00, 15w00, 18:00 and 21:00
From Taunton at
07:05, 10w30, 13w30, 16z30, 18#00, 19:30 and 22*30
Don't like guessing ... wanted a bit of light relief from something else so had a play, and had a couple of nagging wonders if it would work.
* Crossing National Rail services at Williton ONLY
* Terminating at platform on Seaward Road directly beside / behind Butlins
* National Rail trains do not use Minehead heritage station which can be locked secure out of hours
Early train all year off Minehead handles connecting London and Bristol commuters
Second train is for Bristol / Cardiff ... school and commuters in to Taunton
Third train is hospital / shopping / leisure traffic
18:00 caters for commuters returning home from Minehead (pity about it being much earlier in summer?)
21:00 is final train for homebound people; Bristol connection at Taunton M-F
First train off Taunton provides for commuters into Minehead
Next two in winter provide for daytime arrivals (time difference no great problem in summer?)
16:30, 17:55 and 19:30 are school / commuter returns (pity 16:30 is earlier in summer)
Late train inbound at 22:30 for the night owls
Norton Fitzwarren, Doniford, Crowcombe and Stogumber services possibly thinner than need be, pointing joerneys towards Taunton in the morning, back later in the day.
* Heritage trains cross at Crowcombe, Williton and Blue Anchor
* Heritage YELLOW timetable used - peak services only minor mods.
- Only mix of heritage and National is from 18:09 to 18:30 - cross at Crowcombe.
- Diesel heritage services call at Minehead (Seaward Road)
- Only first outbound / last inbound steam trains call at Seaward Road to avoid cutting into service time
Keeping an eye on both day trips out from Butlins and arrival / departures from there.
Some summer / through train concerns as might be a bit tight; want to avoid double change? How about longer layover at Bishops Lydeard which allow for staff PNBs? How important is through Bristol service during day in summer - are connection at Taunton for London ad the north more critical? Changes at Bishops Lydeard - run National Rail terminators to bay so that it can be cross platform to / from heritage and National Rail will not get in way of steam run around.
Connections at Bishop's Lydeard quicker in one direction, slower in other for mechandising
All have some allowance for making up time
All services except 16:15 off Minehead have National Rail connections (no NR train avaiable)
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 05:03, 27th August 2020 | |
Drip, drip, drip ...
These are times of change, and there's a danger if parties don't change to match new times, they'll be left with little or nothing. And perhaps that's a wonderful opportunity to say "what have we to loose - let's go all out and try this". Writing that, I expect both the heritage and the National Network folks to have a feeling I'm looking at them. And both groups are right.
People keep asking. People keep trying. In spite of all the issues raised, it would be "common sense" to use the already-engineered and currently-tracked corridor from Taunton into Minehead for both tourist trips out and the normal journeys of the population and economy of the area. More likely than not it won't happen - but that is not to stop people trying. If at first you don't succeed, try, try again. For sure, "are we wasting our time even trying" is a good question, but perseverance over a number of years can pay off - just about every national network re-opening has grown from seeds of earlier schemes / thoughts / questions over the years which have been unsuccessful.
Edit - correcting a typo
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by trainbuff at 23:26, 26th August 2020 | |
Its not the despair that does it. Its the hope! Love clockwise and John Cleese
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Red Squirrel at 20:41, 26th August 2020 | |
That's the trouble with times like these:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FfnhmuZ27eQ
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 19:00, 26th August 2020 | |
Re post # 132, This I find rather depressing.
I think I have worked out which post you mean. However, if like me you have changed the setting to show the most recent post at the top, they number from the most recent.
Did you mean this one?
As one of those involved in the rescue of the WSR from oblivion from 1973 onwards, and active involvement in operation from early 1976 to late 1979, I'd like to say how heartening it is to see the branch again being thought of in the light of its ability to offer a proper public transport service
The GWR (the real one) added greatly to the line's capacity in the 1930s by doubling the sections between Norton Fitzwarren and Bishops Lydeard and between Dunster and Minehead. I'm not sure about the utility of the first of these sections as being doubled in the present day (it was widely rumoured that the only reason the GW did it, along with the section to Milverton on the Barnstaple line, was to avoid the need for token exchanges at the extremely busy Norton Fitzwarren Jcn box). Also, "summer service only" basic crossing loops were provided at Leigh Woods and at Kentsford. Remotely-controlled reinstatement of some/all of these (assuming the money could be found, which is a huge "if") would enable a timetable to be provided that would cater for commuter trains to/from Taunton and beyond and also heritage steam trains. 30 - 40 minute headways would become possible with shorter sections and recovery from late running would be easier with the double track at the Minehead end. Something like this was my ideal, back in the 1970s
40mph running for DMU type trains was envisioned by the 1975 LRO - I don't know how amenable to this prospect are the present day powers-that-be.
The signal (E627) that gives access to the main line at Norton Fitzwarren, controlled by Exeter Panel, routes only to the present Down/Up Relief. Which is handy, because of access to the existing bay platforms at the country end of the Down Relief platform at Taunton, but a pain regulation wise because a train on or off the branch is difficult to cross the main lines.
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
The GWR (the real one) added greatly to the line's capacity in the 1930s by doubling the sections between Norton Fitzwarren and Bishops Lydeard and between Dunster and Minehead. I'm not sure about the utility of the first of these sections as being doubled in the present day (it was widely rumoured that the only reason the GW did it, along with the section to Milverton on the Barnstaple line, was to avoid the need for token exchanges at the extremely busy Norton Fitzwarren Jcn box). Also, "summer service only" basic crossing loops were provided at Leigh Woods and at Kentsford. Remotely-controlled reinstatement of some/all of these (assuming the money could be found, which is a huge "if") would enable a timetable to be provided that would cater for commuter trains to/from Taunton and beyond and also heritage steam trains. 30 - 40 minute headways would become possible with shorter sections and recovery from late running would be easier with the double track at the Minehead end. Something like this was my ideal, back in the 1970s
40mph running for DMU type trains was envisioned by the 1975 LRO - I don't know how amenable to this prospect are the present day powers-that-be.
The signal (E627) that gives access to the main line at Norton Fitzwarren, controlled by Exeter Panel, routes only to the present Down/Up Relief. Which is handy, because of access to the existing bay platforms at the country end of the Down Relief platform at Taunton, but a pain regulation wise because a train on or off the branch is difficult to cross the main lines.
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
Im not sure I find it quite so depressing.
What I thought Witham Bobby was saying was that it was do-able, but if none of the current variables change, then it wont happen. And he's right.
What I believe is that enough of the variables could be made to change to make the proposal worth investigating.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by ellendune at 18:14, 26th August 2020 | |
Re post # 132, This I find rather depressing.
I think I have worked out which post you mean. However, if like me you have changed the setting to show the most recent post at the top, they number from the most recent.
Did you mean this one?
As one of those involved in the rescue of the WSR from oblivion from 1973 onwards, and active involvement in operation from early 1976 to late 1979, I'd like to say how heartening it is to see the branch again being thought of in the light of its ability to offer a proper public transport service
The GWR (the real one) added greatly to the line's capacity in the 1930s by doubling the sections between Norton Fitzwarren and Bishops Lydeard and between Dunster and Minehead. I'm not sure about the utility of the first of these sections as being doubled in the present day (it was widely rumoured that the only reason the GW did it, along with the section to Milverton on the Barnstaple line, was to avoid the need for token exchanges at the extremely busy Norton Fitzwarren Jcn box). Also, "summer service only" basic crossing loops were provided at Leigh Woods and at Kentsford. Remotely-controlled reinstatement of some/all of these (assuming the money could be found, which is a huge "if") would enable a timetable to be provided that would cater for commuter trains to/from Taunton and beyond and also heritage steam trains. 30 - 40 minute headways would become possible with shorter sections and recovery from late running would be easier with the double track at the Minehead end. Something like this was my ideal, back in the 1970s
40mph running for DMU type trains was envisioned by the 1975 LRO - I don't know how amenable to this prospect are the present day powers-that-be.
The signal (E627) that gives access to the main line at Norton Fitzwarren, controlled by Exeter Panel, routes only to the present Down/Up Relief. Which is handy, because of access to the existing bay platforms at the country end of the Down Relief platform at Taunton, but a pain regulation wise because a train on or off the branch is difficult to cross the main lines.
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
The GWR (the real one) added greatly to the line's capacity in the 1930s by doubling the sections between Norton Fitzwarren and Bishops Lydeard and between Dunster and Minehead. I'm not sure about the utility of the first of these sections as being doubled in the present day (it was widely rumoured that the only reason the GW did it, along with the section to Milverton on the Barnstaple line, was to avoid the need for token exchanges at the extremely busy Norton Fitzwarren Jcn box). Also, "summer service only" basic crossing loops were provided at Leigh Woods and at Kentsford. Remotely-controlled reinstatement of some/all of these (assuming the money could be found, which is a huge "if") would enable a timetable to be provided that would cater for commuter trains to/from Taunton and beyond and also heritage steam trains. 30 - 40 minute headways would become possible with shorter sections and recovery from late running would be easier with the double track at the Minehead end. Something like this was my ideal, back in the 1970s
40mph running for DMU type trains was envisioned by the 1975 LRO - I don't know how amenable to this prospect are the present day powers-that-be.
The signal (E627) that gives access to the main line at Norton Fitzwarren, controlled by Exeter Panel, routes only to the present Down/Up Relief. Which is handy, because of access to the existing bay platforms at the country end of the Down Relief platform at Taunton, but a pain regulation wise because a train on or off the branch is difficult to cross the main lines.
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by broadgage at 17:48, 26th August 2020 | |
Re post # 132, This I find rather depressing. This is NOT to be taken as a personal attack on the O/P who is clearly very knowledgeable.
I am well aware that running an all round service from Minehead to Taunton or beyond is a non trivial undertaking.
It does look as though the problems are even greater than I and others anticipated. Even meeting the PRESENT regulatory challenges might not work as such requirements tend to become steadily more onerous.
It is becoming to sound comparable to building a new railway, and nearly as costly.
I say again that this is not a criticism of the poster, who is obviously well informed.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 20:53, 24th August 2020 | |
So let's err on the side of caution, double that figure, and call it £25m.
You have been reading what Jonathan Jones-Pratt, chairman of the West Someret Railway, said at the start of March: (from ((here)) )
He added: “We currently operate under the Light Railway Order.
“To run the service MRLG are proposing, at the speeds they are proposing, would require a huge overhaul of much of our infrastructure to bring it up to the standards required for running a Network Rail service.
“That alone could cost between £20 million and £30m.”
“To run the service MRLG are proposing, at the speeds they are proposing, would require a huge overhaul of much of our infrastructure to bring it up to the standards required for running a Network Rail service.
“That alone could cost between £20 million and £30m.”
I hadnt read that actually - If I had, then I would have quoted it
What I do find interesting is that both MRLG and our proposals see the provision of through National Rail services as a way of securing WSR's very survival, whilst Jonathan Jones-Pratt clearly takes what Witham Bobby described as a dog-in-the-manger attitude - ie that the proposal is an existential threat to the WSR.
In my opinion, he needs to be careful what he wishes for. It wont have gone unnoticed by those among the powers that be who view WSR as a barometer of the health of the Heritage Rail sector that they have yet to operate a timetabled train in anger since the Coronvirus hit in earnest, while a number of comparable heritage railways are up and running again.
If he and the WSR force the binary choice that I described in an earlier post, then they may find that they end up removing themselves from the playing field far more effectively than any supposed "enemies" might.
Our proposal provides a way of avoiding that and allowing WSR to continue what they do best for many years to come, while also enjoying the safety in numbers of being a key part of an overall effective team.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 19:51, 24th August 2020 | |
So let's err on the side of caution, double that figure, and call it £25m.
You have been reading what Jonathan Jones-Pratt, chairman of the West Someret Railway, said at the start of March: (from ((here)) )
He added: “We currently operate under the Light Railway Order.
“To run the service MRLG are proposing, at the speeds they are proposing, would require a huge overhaul of much of our infrastructure to bring it up to the standards required for running a Network Rail service.
“That alone could cost between £20 million and £30m.”
“To run the service MRLG are proposing, at the speeds they are proposing, would require a huge overhaul of much of our infrastructure to bring it up to the standards required for running a Network Rail service.
“That alone could cost between £20 million and £30m.”
Away from the spotlight of publicity, and with the shakeup of coronavirus on top of everything else, I do wonder if some respected 'elder statesman' could start the unthinkable moving along. You've seen my description earlier, and I would add in a West Country knowledge too, and perhaps a railway and/or local government transport career.
As one of those involved in the rescue of the WSR from oblivion from 1973 onwards, and active involvement in operation from early 1976 to late 1979, I'd like to say how heartening it is to see the branch again being thought of in the light of its ability to offer a proper public transport service
[snip]
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
[snip]
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
Wonderful extra fill in - thank you. Just snipped to make complete my post without getting out of hand.
Perhaps - just perhaps - the current crisis has tossed all the cards in the air and people can think the unthinkable, fund what would have been very hard to fund. And move it OFF the back burner - bring it forward in a spirit of a new beginning.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Witham Bobby at 10:44, 24th August 2020 | |
As one of those involved in the rescue of the WSR from oblivion from 1973 onwards, and active involvement in operation from early 1976 to late 1979, I'd like to say how heartening it is to see the branch again being thought of in the light of its ability to offer a proper public transport service
The GWR (the real one) added greatly to the line's capacity in the 1930s by doubling the sections between Norton Fitzwarren and Bishops Lydeard and between Dunster and Minehead. I'm not sure about the utility of the first of these sections as being doubled in the present day (it was widely rumoured that the only reason the GW did it, along with the section to Milverton on the Barnstaple line, was to avoid the need for token exchanges at the extremely busy Norton Fitzwarren Jcn box). Also, "summer service only" basic crossing loops were provided at Leigh Woods and at Kentsford. Remotely-controlled reinstatement of some/all of these (assuming the money could be found, which is a huge "if") would enable a timetable to be provided that would cater for commuter trains to/from Taunton and beyond and also heritage steam trains. 30 - 40 minute headways would become possible with shorter sections and recovery from late running would be easier with the double track at the Minehead end. Something like this was my ideal, back in the 1970s
40mph running for DMU type trains was envisioned by the 1975 LRO - I don't know how amenable to this prospect are the present day powers-that-be.
The signal (E627) that gives access to the main line at Norton Fitzwarren, controlled by Exeter Panel, routes only to the present Down/Up Relief. Which is handy, because of access to the existing bay platforms at the country end of the Down Relief platform at Taunton, but a pain regulation wise because a train on or off the branch is difficult to cross the main lines.
I suspect it's all do-able, but lack of will politically, a dog-in-the-manger attitude amongst preservationists of the present WSR, and biggest of all, a shortage of money, will keep all of this very much on the back burner
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by Lee at 10:13, 24th August 2020 | |
Which perhaps then brings in another welliphant.
Oooooooz gooooonnna pay for it..................
Oooooooz gooooonnna pay for it..................
In answering that, it is probably prudent to also ask Ooooooow much is it gooooonnna cost......
Lord Tony Berkeley and Michael Byng attempted to do that in their July 2020 South West rail enhancement proposals report:
Does anyone know what is proposed regarding "upgrading the Taunton – Minehead West Somerset Railway heritage line (£11.8m)."
Do they mean upgrading the existing heritage line, perhaps to national network standards ?
Or improving facilities for through running between the WSR and Taunton ?
Or subsidising the running costs of a regular through service ?
Or something else.
Do they mean upgrading the existing heritage line, perhaps to national network standards ?
Or improving facilities for through running between the WSR and Taunton ?
Or subsidising the running costs of a regular through service ?
Or something else.
No, I don't know - but I can look it up using the link Lee provided:
West Somerset Railway – provision of community rail services; estimated project cost
£11,800,000.00
This popular heritage line is in need of major track and structures upgrade if it is to continue to operate. Expert track engineers will need to finalise the exact needs, but they can provide this service as part of the heritage sector support. The works themselves, however, should include upgrading the line to higher line speeds and enabling scheduled passenger services from the large town of Minehead and intermediate stations to Taunton and possible beyond on the GW Network. It has the potential of removing the need for many journeys on the currently congested and slow road network.
a. Taunton Station (NR) – alterations to Platform 2
b. Taunton to Norton Fitzwarren (NR) – enhance bi-directional loop
c. Norton Fitzwarren to Minehead (WSR) – track renewals and capacity enhancement
£11,800,000.00
This popular heritage line is in need of major track and structures upgrade if it is to continue to operate. Expert track engineers will need to finalise the exact needs, but they can provide this service as part of the heritage sector support. The works themselves, however, should include upgrading the line to higher line speeds and enabling scheduled passenger services from the large town of Minehead and intermediate stations to Taunton and possible beyond on the GW Network. It has the potential of removing the need for many journeys on the currently congested and slow road network.
a. Taunton Station (NR) – alterations to Platform 2
b. Taunton to Norton Fitzwarren (NR) – enhance bi-directional loop
c. Norton Fitzwarren to Minehead (WSR) – track renewals and capacity enhancement
However, it is unclear whether the actual costs of providing the through National Rail services are included in the £11.8m figure, and the authors themselves admit that the exact needs of the upgrade of the WSR section are yet to be finalised. It is unlikely that additional potential issues such as those identified by Rhydgaled have been factored in either. And, dare I say it, there is a fear that potential costs of projects elsewhere in their report have been somewhat undershot.
So let's err on the side of caution, double that figure, and call it £25m.
That just happens to be the cost of the recent upgrade of our neighbouring Guingamp-Paimpol line. It has SNCF services all year round, with the line being shared with steam services in the summer. It is also roughly the same length as the Taunton-Minehead route, with a similar restricted speed limit profile.
However, SNCF didnt happen to have a spare £25m sitting around for this project, and a similar Oooooooz gooooonnna pay for it debate ensued.
The answer was that all the project stakeholders chipped in to pay for it, to the following contribution percentages:
Brittany region: 43%, Central Government: 20.3%, SNCF Réseau: 15%, Departmental Council of Côtes d'Armor: 11%, Paimpol community of communes -Goëlo: 4.4%, Guingamp Community: 4%, Pays de Guingamp: 1.5%, Pontrieux Community: 0.6%, Pays de Bégard: 0.2%
While I would be the first to admit that acheiving similar contribution percentages in terms of funding would be difficult to say the least in the current climate, it does underline the need to come up with a coherent, united plan, and to get everyone involved to coherently unite around it.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 08:37, 24th August 2020 | |
Missed from previous post ...
Let's look at the metrics of "who will use it" for both Butlins and the town, perhaps changed in the new normal. Rail and public transport in general is for everyone and as well as the genteel country music festival goers and stereotype families. It's for the people who may have preferred Ayia Napa or Ibiza for their main / usual holidays or weekends away, but the carrot of Minehead plus the stick of quarantine worry on return may keep them local now. Comparisons to Weymouth - served by what are (this month) the most overcrowded GWR trains. Yes, I know - that 21:00 off Minehead connects with the 22:21 or 22:43 at Taunton to Bristol (M-F services) and is likely to require 'dry rules'.
Daytime outbound by heritage train, back on the national service are likely to be common requirements for some of the people I mention, and that's where care needs to be taken in having an encouraging yet financially secure fare system. Outgoing I suspect the day trippers who may not be fit enough to drive home by the evening will pay heritage rates and if those are "return by national rail" tickets, you eliminate fare collection issues after dark.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by grahame at 07:41, 24th August 2020 | |
A very interesting overnight discussion, thank you. There is - I suspect - a need and desire to move forward with pragmatic steps - not "rip up and rebuild" mode. This is not proposed as a borders railway project. A requirement for a Development Consent Order should not be needed ... and a single carriage on heritage trains that are PRM accessible should be good provision, just as a single (lower) deck on double deck buses is good provision on buses. There is certainly a need to look at each station that will be used by national services for access to those services for all, and in the case of some low number stations there could be a reluctant decision not to have the national services call.
Funding - perhaps a requirement to tap in on the national stage to the various funds and schemes. We are at a time of changes, and that's both a curse and a blessing. There is a history of getting things "shovel ready" prior to knowing which fund / method will be used, and this one may be no different. And, yes, it required speculation to get all the ducks in a row without a guarantee it will happen. With a good scheme, with virtually everyone saying "we want this", it could happen. I can find you some schemes that have moved forward without full funding which has then been found ... requires some "balls" and confidence - but can be done. Look at extra funding just found for Portway Parkway, increased money for Portishead, which was not on the table at the start.
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by TaplowGreen at 05:55, 24th August 2020 | |
Which perhaps then brings in another welliphant.
Oooooooz gooooonnna pay for it..................
Oooooooz gooooonnna pay for it..................
Not a problem, Broadgage has decreed that Butlins will pick up the bill (see above), probably means that the prizes for the knobbly knees competition will be a little less extravagant though in order to offset the cost, and I doubt you'll find fillet steak and Port on the menu in the "all you can eat" buffet for much longer..........(I am presuming however that all trains to Butlins Central will have a Pullman restaurant?) 🙂
| Re: Minehead Rail Link Group Posted by GBM at 03:58, 24th August 2020 | |
Which perhaps then brings in another welliphant.
Oooooooz gooooonnna pay for it..................
